Nels Llendo (and other gender-specific quests.)

[Darrel Hoffman]

I'm not sure if it's a quest so much, as it didn't seem to go anywhere, but
since I'm playing a female character this time, I noticed a difference.
When I met this guy near Pelagiad, he asked me for a kiss. Now, I felt like
a total slut giving it to him, but the only other option was "I'd sooner
kiss a Guar". And, well, I didn't want to be rude... Anyhow, he tells you
to look him up if you're ever in Pelagiad, so I did, and he was at the
tavern - with another woman on his arm, how dare he?! But there didn't seem
to be any more to it than that. He's just a guy that offers a little
training. I was expecting something more... I don't know - just more.
Maybe the location of a secret treasure or something? Whatever.

The only other quest-related thing I've seen that's gender dependant is when
you hook up Maurie and Nelos, she recommends you to meet with a friend of
hers. If you're male, it's a woman in Tel Aruhn. If you're female, it's a
guy in Tel Branora. (I haven't gone to the Tel Branora guy yet, but when my
other character met the woman in Tel Aruhn, all he got was a couple potions
and 100% disposition from her - not entirely a bad thing since everybody
else in Tel Aruhn and the other Telvanni cities hated his guts.)

I imagine as well that a female character will have an easier time
impressing the councilwoman at Tel Mora when it comes time to get myself
elected Hortator, though I'd guess that's probably balanced out somewhere
else by it being easier for a male character.

I think that more stuff should be dependant on gender, really. It would be
cool if the Admire option under Persuasion were more effective on NPCs of
the opposite gender, particularly if you're the same race. (I haven't seen
many interracial couples in this game, but maybe I haven't been paying much
attention to that until I thought of it just now...) There couldn't be any
advantage to playing one gender over the other, that wouldn't be PC. Or if
there was an advantage, it would have to be balanced by an equal
disadvantage, such as the above example with Persuasion working differently.

While I'm thinking about it, it also occurs to me that Intimidate should be
more effective the more advanced your character is. A lvl 5 character, even
one with good Speechcraft and Personality, should not be as effective at
Intimidating people as a lvl 50 character, even if his relevant skills and
attributes are lower. You see a huge dude sporting the best armor and
weapons in the world and obviously built to kill, you're going to be far
more intimidated than you will be by some scrawny new recruit, fresh out of
adventuring school, regardless of the fact that they might have a way with
words. Taunts and Bribes are fine the way they are, though I still think
it's weird that Taunt works better when the character likes you than it does
when they hate you - completely counter-intuitive.

[Sarah]

Post by Darrel Hoffman
He's just a guy that offers a little
training. I was expecting something more... I don't know - just more.
Maybe the location of a secret treasure or something? Whatever.

I was expecting more too, and was disappointed that all he does is hang
around the tavern. Some big bad bandit he turned out to be.

Post by Darrel Hoffman
The only other quest-related thing I've seen that's gender dependant is when
you hook up Maurie and Nelos, she recommends you to meet with a friend of
hers. If you're male, it's a woman in Tel Aruhn. If you're female, it's a
guy in Tel Branora. (I haven't gone to the Tel Branora guy yet, but when my
other character met the woman in Tel Aruhn, all he got was a couple potions
and 100% disposition from her - not entirely a bad thing since everybody
else in Tel Aruhn and the other Telvanni cities hated his guts.)

You get the same if you go see the guy in Tel Aruhn.

Post by Darrel Hoffman
I imagine as well that a female character will have an easier time
impressing the councilwoman at Tel Mora when it comes time to get myself
elected Hortator, though I'd guess that's probably balanced out somewhere
else by it being easier for a male character.
I think that more stuff should be dependant on gender, really.

Don't forget the Ahnassi romance quests when you're playing a male PC.

Post by Darrel Hoffman
It would be
cool if the Admire option under Persuasion were more effective on NPCs of
the opposite gender

I wouldn't want this. It assumes that the PC and all of the NPCs are
straight. If they include anything like this, then NPCs should have a
sexual orientation and the PC should be able to select theirs at character
creation.

Post by Darrel Hoffman
While I'm thinking about it, it also occurs to me that Intimidate should be
more effective the more advanced your character is. A lvl 5 character, even
one with good Speechcraft and Personality, should not be as effective at
Intimidating people as a lvl 50 character, even if his relevant skills and
attributes are lower. You see a huge dude sporting the best armor and
weapons in the world and obviously built to kill, you're going to be far
more intimidated than you will be by some scrawny new recruit, fresh out of
adventuring school, regardless of the fact that they might have a way with
words.

This is very true.

Post by Darrel Hoffman
Taunts and Bribes are fine the way they are, though I still think
it's weird that Taunt works better when the character likes you than it does
when they hate you - completely counter-intuitive.

I don't like the fact that you can bribe someone and they turn you down,
then bribe them again with the same amount and they accept it, then bribe
them again and they turn you down, etc. I think once a bribe is turned
down, it should stay turned down unless the pot is sweetened. And I'd like
more choices than 10, 100, and 1000 gold. Let me type in an amount.

[Darrel Hoffman]

Post by Sarah
Don't forget the Ahnassi romance quests when you're playing a male PC.

Hmm... Where is this? Haven't run across this yet. And if this exists, is
there a female-equivalent?

Post by Sarah

Post by Darrel Hoffman
It would be
cool if the Admire option under Persuasion were more effective on NPCs of
the opposite gender

I wouldn't want this. It assumes that the PC and all of the NPCs are
straight. If they include anything like this, then NPCs should have a
sexual orientation and the PC should be able to select theirs at character
creation.

I was going to mention that, but thought that it was probably unlikely you'd
be able to put gay-friendly content into a T-rated game and not have the
censors all over you. I mean, if you really wanted to get involved, you'd
even have the possibility of a bisexual character, but then everybody would
want to be bisexual, just because you'd get an Admire bonus when dealing
with either gender. (Assuming the NPC was either straight and opposite
gender, gay and same gender, or bisexual as well...) Also, allowing a
character to be gay might be a bit of a social handicap, gameplay-wise,
unless they made exactly half of the NPCs gay as well. (And watch how well
THAT idea would fly with the ultra-conservative crowd...) Anyhow, I think
they wouldn't be able to get away with it unless they raised the game to an
M-rating...

Post by Sarah

Post by Darrel Hoffman
Taunts and Bribes are fine the way they are, though I still think
it's weird that Taunt works better when the character likes you than it does
when they hate you - completely counter-intuitive.

I don't like the fact that you can bribe someone and they turn you down,
then bribe them again with the same amount and they accept it, then bribe
them again and they turn you down, etc. I think once a bribe is turned
down, it should stay turned down unless the pot is sweetened. And I'd like
more choices than 10, 100, and 1000 gold. Let me type in an amount.

Also, the whole Taunt/Bribe system is completely backwards. You bribe them
until they like you, taunt until they hate you, and if they don't attack
you, you bribe some more until they like you, then taunt again, etc. until
you finally convince them to attack, after which you kill them, then take
all your money back. When in real life could you possibly conceive of a
situation like that actually occurring? It makes no sense at all.

Incidentally, I discovered a neat trick for getting characters to attack you
if your Speechcraft and Personality are too low to effectively Taunt. Find
or make some potions of Drain Personailty on Self. Get it as low as it can
go. Then Admire somebody repeatedly. Eventually they will get pissed off
and attack. Just as good as Taunting, but no high skills required. (In
fact it's easier with low skills, making this a great trick for newbie
characters.) I don't know about everybody else, but if some ugly, annoying,
repulsive woman (or a man for that matter) was hitting on me in a bar, I'd
just ignore them or tell them to leave me alone, and I think the same would
be true if the genders were reversed. I don't think anybody I've ever met
would resort to a fight to the death...

[Sarah]

Post by Darrel Hoffman

Post by Sarah
Don't forget the Ahnassi romance quests when you're playing a male PC.

Hmm... Where is this? Haven't run across this yet. And if this exists, is
there a female-equivalent?

Unfortunately there's no female equivalent, though there's a bi-Ahnassi mod
you can use to make the quest work with females. Ahnassi hangs out at the
tavern in Pelagiad. If you're a male PC, she may just chat you up. I think
your agility has to be at a certain level - not sky high. Perhaps at least
40?

Post by Darrel Hoffman
I was going to mention that, but thought that it was probably unlikely you'd
be able to put gay-friendly content into a T-rated game and not have the
censors all over you.

I don't know, Knights of the Old Republic managed it. And don't forget old
Crassius.

Post by Darrel Hoffman
Also, allowing a
character to be gay might be a bit of a social handicap, gameplay-wise,
unless they made exactly half of the NPCs gay as well.

Not being able to persuade someone isn't a game killer - there are usually
other ways to solve a quest. When speechcraft/personality are high, the
orientation of the NPC and PC probably wouldn't make all that much of a
difference anymore, anyway. They wouldn't have to make half gay - that
would be unrealistic, for one thing. If they were to make just a few of the
quest related NPCs gay (along with a certain percentage of the cookie-cutter
ones), it would balance things out a bit.

Post by Darrel Hoffman
Anyhow, I think
they wouldn't be able to get away with it unless they raised the game to an
M-rating...

It's been done already without the M rating.

Post by Darrel Hoffman
Also, the whole Taunt/Bribe system is completely backwards. You bribe them
until they like you, taunt until they hate you, and if they don't attack
you, you bribe some more until they like you, then taunt again, etc. until
you finally convince them to attack, after which you kill them, then take
all your money back. When in real life could you possibly conceive of a
situation like that actually occurring? It makes no sense at all.

Exactly, which is why I'm hoping they've overhauled persuasion in Oblivion.
It doesn't make sense that you can talk to an NPC for five minutes and go up
a few levels in Speechcraft even though persuasion has failed many, many
times. If you admire an NPC and they rebuff you, to continue to do so
should be an automatic failure. Same goes for bribe unless the pot is
sweetened. Same goes for taunt. If they don't care the first time because
they think you're an annoying twat that is beneath them, they're not going
to care the second time unless you know what their hot buttons are and
persuasion allows you to pick taunts for specific NPCs based on background
info you've uncovered about them. But that's a little too sophisticated.

Post by Darrel Hoffman
Incidentally, I discovered a neat trick for getting characters to attack you
if your Speechcraft and Personality are too low to effectively Taunt.
Find
or make some potions of Drain Personailty on Self. Get it as low as it can
go. Then Admire somebody repeatedly. Eventually they will get pissed off
and attack. Just as good as Taunting, but no high skills required. (In
fact it's easier with low skills, making this a great trick for newbie
characters.)

I didn't know about this... will have to try it.

Post by Darrel Hoffman
I don't know about everybody else, but if some ugly, annoying,
repulsive woman (or a man for that matter) was hitting on me in a bar, I'd
just ignore them or tell them to leave me alone, and I think the same would
be true if the genders were reversed. I don't think anybody I've ever met
would resort to a fight to the death...

Me either.

[LordOfFli]

And don't forget old Crassius.

Does he speak to a female character that way? Or do you have to be
male to be called 'dumpling'?

[Sarah]

Post by LordOfFli

And don't forget old Crassius.

Does he speak to a female character that way? Or do you have to be
male to be called 'dumpling'?

He does. I think he swings both ways.

[Greg Johnson]

Post by Darrel Hoffman

Post by Sarah
Don't forget the Ahnassi romance quests when you're playing a male PC.

Hmm... Where is this? Haven't run across this yet. And if this exists, is
there a female-equivalent?

Post by Sarah

Post by Darrel Hoffman
It would be
cool if the Admire option under Persuasion were more effective on NPCs

of

Post by Sarah

Post by Darrel Hoffman
the opposite gender

I wouldn't want this. It assumes that the PC and all of the NPCs are
straight. If they include anything like this, then NPCs should have a
sexual orientation and the PC should be able to select theirs at character
creation.

I was going to mention that, but thought that it was probably unlikely you'd
be able to put gay-friendly content into a T-rated game and not have the
censors all over you. I mean, if you really wanted to get involved, you'd
even have the possibility of a bisexual character, but then everybody would
want to be bisexual, just because you'd get an Admire bonus when dealing
with either gender.

That wouldn't make much sense. Obviously, the Admire bonus would have
nothing to do with your character's orientation; it would depend on
whether the person you're talking to liked your gender or not. To have
it depend on your own orientation would mean your character is
constantly telling everyone you meet what that orientation is, and
that's just silly.